First, I would like to thank you Mirco for inviting me to this topic!! Thank you!

Then I would like to tell you a bit around my knowledge of Palestine/Israel matter and the whole issue of it, but of course all briefly

* I know people which been in war against Israel which happened since many years back, people which did fight in that war itself

* I live right now in Jordan at some area where if I look out of the window I see the part of the west bank and Israel together and see the mountains which what comes after them is the mediterranean sea....

* I may drive all the way down for around 20 - 25 KMs in order to reach the borders of Jordan and the west bank and Israel

* There is a street which once I reach after 20 - 25 KMs of driving that runs all along the borders of Jordan and Israel from the at most north to the at most south of both countries and along with too is a river called (The Jordanian River)

* There are some spots which both countries share at the very same area including the place where christian people go baptize at which is the spot of the Jordanian river at where Jesus did baptize at the first of all baptizers.........

* Cities facing Cities of both countries....... Jordan and Israel of which I went to many......

* I know people (people in person and of which happened to be close friends of mine!!) of the US army which left the US army for several reasons while the main reason is injustice of the company of army toward all of their actions against other countries specifically Palestine!! and the countries of the middle east.... after they witnessed war and lived the reality of actual actions........ (for briefing issues I'm not going to speak more about those people as some speech could lead to another......)

* I know journalists (In person) which travel from the US and Canada to the middle east to investigate what goes on around these areas and how the united states are handling things around here, and (how israel government are handling things in palestine) those which travel to palestine with video cameras and journalism equipments, live with the palestinian civilians at their own villages and towns and at their own houses, record, stream, capture and take photos of what goes on around there............

* I met, spoke and delt with countless amount of palestinian people during the few past years..... and some of them (many of them) are very nice kind people really, but of course not all!! and if I would put to the consideration the things I would hold against them as they happened and as I seen from them of behaviors...... then take them as palestinians in general...., I would put them at the top of the list of people I would hate the most in whole life....................... but this is a whole total other subject and let's keep it aside too and not speak of for the sake of briefing.....

* I been watching, listening to, hearing fresh very current news and ones from people I closely know and not closely but proven so clear and obvious with no dust on them during the many years around 20.... and by living this close almost most of my life time around these areas...............

Please don't tell me after all that, that you know more than I do about Palestine and Israel issue.......

I don't think so my self.......

So what I said at the shoutbox were friendly words only meant for to clear up who of you was right assuming you both would take them as friendly as they were and warm heartedly while putting to the consideration some factors including those I cleared up above here around my knowledge of the situation and how much more I could be knowing than you both do as a Jordanian civilian who is living this close from both Palestine and Israel............

I also never thought you would take them the whole opposite way and take the whole thing as a chance for an argument which you to be thinking you would win (while honestly!! why to be treating it as a challenge in the first place??!!!!) because a smart call were to be as simple and as logic as it should be, to take them as supportive words to the point from a "current to the events" source....... than a chance for a dispute and/or an argument............

But anyways, I would be spending more time for to clear things up and find the many enough resources of which I know to bring to this subject unless I don't have the time to retrieve them back as I had my PC crash lately and had to wipe it all and reinstall everything as I tryed to look over the internet but somethings seem to be deleted and removed from there............ and I don't remember any of the websites or the exact titles of the news of which could be enough for this......... I also honestly am not in the mood, but anyways

Jordan has a river, Jordan more likely used to have a river called the "jordanian River" and this river used to be the main supply of water for Jordan from most of the water supply aspects............ however Israel happen to not like the fact that this river passes all along Jordan........ so they decided to make some adjustments and delete this river of it's geographic location..............

What Israel did to the river caused too many issues....... many issues of which one is enough that if Jordan wipe the whole damn country Israel of the map shouldn't be blamed for it.......

Cause if this River is still running, would be at least enough to produce food which is enough to feed the whole continent or let's say all the hanger issues of africa (for at least)......

If Jordan would react only for the troubles people go through, dispute, argue and fight as a result of messing with this River, and if they wipe Israel of the map would not be blamed for how many issues and troubles they did really cause during the years by doing that.........

However if Jordan would face israel, Jordan actually first of all would be facing what is behind Israel!! USA which I guess you still refuse to believe that it is (Israel number 1) and Israel is (Israel number 2) but if you make more research you would realize that who rules USA are jewish people..>>>> in the mean while Israel is a jewish based country/based organisation!! but to figure that out it somewhat requires a good thorough research with a decent amount of perception...... and Second of all, Jordan too is being ruled by the USA.............. but in an indirect way...........

* I know people of the US army and US politics with somewhat a decent high level (high, meaning high) they spoke to me and were so clear around the fact that the USA's policy is obviously and frankly about ((keep troubles and wage war outside the US, keep the inside of the US safe and clean!)) as is..........

As is the same policy being practiced inside of the Israel surround............. ((keep troubles and wars at the outter of Israel to insure security of it's inside.....and to insure no responds back toward their already committed actions.....))

* Security is only 1 reason out of many for why to wage war outside both the countries........

Let's get back to our subject which is (if hamas is number 1 reason why there is no peace?!?!?) as it is what you said and this is the very point why I made some comment in the first place and was trying to wronging you for......... which is what caused this forum topic!!

wrote:

I would be careful with bandying about terms like genocide. Hamas hides their rocket batteries deliberately in civilian areas, and they are the number one reason there is no peace.

Mircwar, I don't know your nationality, but let's assume it is as it shows here, as Swedish, and let's assume that Mexico someday decided that it requires some base country in Europ for political and/or economical interest of general matters....... then decided that sweden is the country of goal....... then they hit sweden, conquer and occupy, not only, but keep the many oppressive, slaughtery and wrong actions against sweden going on for several years on the row.......... they give no rights to the civilians, kill women, old people and kids....... and treat it all as slavery, not only but also keep demolition of houses each time they are rebuilt just like a game of demolition....... swedish people build..... mexican people decide for houses to be demolished, then they proceed with............. they demolish, with no clear obvious excuse....... only to keep people down and insure security......... they find a mental reason for to hit some area......... they make some fake excuse....... they proceed with, they hit, they kill and injure women, children and old people..........

Year by year, 10 by another 10........... then some group of people decide to gather for as a resistance power.............. you maybe and some of your friends and relatives and people you know to resist and fight against all the wrongful actoins mexican to be making against your people and your country.........

Would you call that group of people "the group of number 1 no peace in the territory" ??

Palestinian people are suffering difficulties smuggling food and medicine for to feed and heal their owns, I don't know how some people manage to believe they smuggle weapons and what?? ""they attack Israel with....... (not defend their owns) and that if it really happens.........."" and what? they ((deliberately)) hide their weapons at civilians areas for to make more troubles for their own people........... like if they have time in the first place to be thinking of that to have plans instead of dealing with all the mess they got already to deal with......

How to believe? by a photo of a soldier crouching at some dug with some words of description written by the media.......... who the media are?! .............. .................

During the 60 years of war Palestine is suffering from, palestinians used no more heavy weapons than stones to throw........... and throw on what?! on anti tank attack tanks................ palestinian people became famous of the "throwing stones people"!! and what if they smuggle weapons? still..... wouldn't be proper to call them (the number 1 no peace reason)

I had many news resources but lost them and happen to be difficult to find them again, as they seem to be deleted and removed from the internet...... but I would like to tell you some few............. as I would like to add some videos.....

* Few years back, an Israely sniper did kill a child (a girl) a child maximum of 5 years old........ she was lost and walking toward the borders at some empty desert........... no buldings, no civilians...... no vehicles, not even animals at that area........ the sniper saw her and knew she was a little girl............. but then he hit.....

A controversy went around it..........

Investigation result: the sniper was guilty

Israely government action: no action to be taken against the soldier since the soldier was on duty defending his country and as he felt some threat (of the 5 years old girl child) felt some threat from her toward the sand of the desert, he had to take action.......

..........

Israel: dring dring dring dring, U.S?! some children been throwing real serious, cruel, very mean, agressive stones ((((AT)))) at our very very poor anti tank attack tanks which cost around billions of dollars.............

US: is that true?? ................. air fighters are to be on their ways asap (as soon as possible) which only cost 10s of billions of dollars but no problem.......!! cause the enemies are the ones to pay for them in way or another!! (enemies which are real cruel to a level where they can throw stones..) and that is our excuse to move forces out from the U.S into Israel..........

But probably you still don't believe it yourself, do you?

Please watch.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwQt3J1sjfQ&NR=1&feature=endscreen

Watch the reaction and the behaviors of the President right after the girl ask him the question..........

I don't think he was eating some cookies, was he? ........ no no I don't think so!! but maybe he didn't drink water before the conference........

* many of the residents of the United States of America have the exact same questions as some of them been asking them straight to presidents during the years........ few years back, someone asked the same question, but then got beaten in public and sent to jail, but who knows what happened to him after.................

* One of my journalist friends which come from America happened to be in palestine a year or two ago........ I don't remember exactly, but at the last months of 2010........ and during the period of stay at palestine at a village which had many friends at and used to stay with them there and live at their own houses.......... during 6 months of stay.................. 8 demolitions processes occured against the villagers houses, they demolish, the villagers try to rebuild....... demolish again....... rebuild and so..........

I don't really have the exact videos and resources at the moment, but this video could be a bit of example to bring up some clarify to the picture....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYxD7ruuXsg

.............

There is something maybe you don't know about jews, which is that they think of themselves as if they were the chosen people out of all lived, live and will live on planet earth........... while others have no rights and have no feelings or deserve nothing of a value and no attention or equality to be put to the consideration............ the also think that they should be the people to rule on the world cause they are the chosen ones.............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jG6kJm-50k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlT3ARuUSGc&feature=related

in the videos it says that this is how they treat christian tourists......... but not to mention that christians are the closest and most relevant to them in their own opinions.............

......

Watch this one......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uWck1ZktX4

So Israel do nothing? simply how poor they are and peaceful but only defend themselves?

I wish I have the videos I used to have before......

The journalists mentioned that Israely soldiers do not care about journalists nor they respect them...... they do not care about midics either............ instead they do attack them!! and through the many years journalists been killed by Israely soldiers and even while trying to defend kids from being killed by them.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34jPNN0qdF8

This is nothing to show really, but some of what could bring some image............

This video also speaks about it.............. briefly............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM2S0L6xW5c&feature=related

................

Thank you for reading and watching,

But I still have one more thing to speak about.................. Mirco, I honestly see no good reason why would you turn some normal talk into an argument, but maybe, could be that you are jew yourself and only trying to defend Israel because of that.........

If so, we will never reach some end to this argument..........

Or maybe you just like to make arguments............. in this case I also have no time for it

I really really have no time for arguments, please don't be offended, but I am speaking frankly and to make myself clear here, as I speak to you as if you were a friend! I only wanted to make your dispute with camel clear that's all...............

If it is an argument you are seaking, I wish I have enough time for it! I would be glad to bear with you so you enjoy arguments but seriously can't........

However, if you are seaking truths and seaking the truth, then please look closely at what I wrote above and watch the videos, they could be of some help to finding it around this matter!! as I will also in the future hopefully search better to find better resources and more proofs around the whole matter, and will be glad to spend time for the truth because it worth it!!

But arguments certainly worth none to spend for...........

Writing to you as a responce and to answer your kind invitation too with all the sincerity and peace!

Thank you for your time spent, making the topic, writing, inviting us, and reading of course!! cheers and with best regards!!

hey i will try explain our option on this situation

well Israel declared in 1948 by the UN
then PM declared it too
at first Israel was very tiny places most of the areas was controls by the Palestines

the Palestine didnt like it and many other countries around us didnt like it
even we and them live with peace till the day we declared the country
we had to fight back and take those strategic places to avoid heavy attacks on our country

tell u the true i dont care about country's soil im not religious man [ i was 6-7 years ago]
but that we are left with
jews not welcome on any country, we have to have soil for us

i also believe we dont need Jerusalem too just those are religious
there a lot of religious ppls here unfortunately
and its getting stronger and stronger

if Hamas could try understand that we would nice peace
and maybe someday we can merge Jerusalem to be
capital city of both countries

Israel made with Jordon and Egypt peace
we are peace ppls

if army call me to war im going to protect my self and ppls not the soil
soil need to feed me not to be feed by my blood

wrote:

Camel since you are so obsessed with fake videos and conspiracies you should really look into all the fake videos and propaganda from the other side. Because there you will actually find some, pictures used from the Syrian conflict, staged casualties that stand up and walk away after a photo shoot and so on. I'll give you a place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood

First of all I am not obsessed by any fake videos, maybe in your perspective they are all fake because you cant accept the fact that your view can be faked aswel by mass media, Yes I do watch news on TV, most stations are same 90% of them shows you exactly the same things, there could be one news TV station and there wont be a difference.... they all are controlled, they cant show you something that isnt accepted by higher management that its called censorship, so they can all show you some propaganda how palestine is evil and israel is good, how usa is wonderful and rest of the world is shitty and so on and so on, when I watch local news I believe only in few things related to what is happening in my own city or region, traffic collisions, some family was murdered or someone is missing, but when I see news about outside world I watch it carefully tries to remember what they just shown me and then verify it by the internet from various sites and what happens is just obvious, they lie is almost all aspects, btw you shouldnt read or watch what holy New York Times shows you because of: http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote/david_rockefeller_quote_103d
and who David Rockefeler is, well its up to you to learn about that wonderful person, but you should know that this quote is true, he wrote that in his book
Who are Rockefeler or Rothschild famillies, dig the info by yourself to know who rules you, who tells your president and whole gov what to do with you and what is best for you.

In my opinion you are naive mircz, you believe what mass media puts in front of your nose and you accept it without any doubt, what is interesting for me is one old letter that was released by some person, google "Albert Pike 1871" if you want to know more, it is also authentic, it was even quoted in 2 books by 2 authors, one was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr, the letter was lying in the London Museum but as soon someone mentioned about it they simply removed it without any reason to be told and funny how someone mention about it its called a conspiracy theory, do you even know what means that, Am I a conspirator, I belong to any conspiracy group? no... so stop calling me like that, I can have my own opinion about some things same as you do, but I am not calling you a liar or sucker because you believe in every word what your fake media tells you.

The propaganda brainwash as all each day, you watch news TV, commercials, listen radio, what they tell you believe, the internet is for the purpose that you got your own way to dig some infos about certain things to know better or simply more, you can learn some things that became not true what TV said you and you just wonder, wtf, why etc...
You got that switch in your head that is programmed to not listen anyone else then mass media and it is ON all the time, so what can I do more to switch you back

now offtopic:
You remember when I shown you my view from the apartment, when I wanted to catch so called chemtrails, I failed because I was too late and sun was gone to catch them, but I finally catch best spectacle ever, It was best seen by your own eyes but on camera it is also good example about what you and connie did not believed and what I wanted to show you in that time, how contrails aka chemtrails are forming into thin clouds, its called geoengineering and its also documented already where they admit it, but still, they dont tell you that they spray it daily by the airplanes even commercial, so take a look at my own pictures and see how artificial clouds are forming from these contrails that are the chemtrails and contain deadly particles such as aluminium, barium or magnesium that are found in the air, soil and water by a simple tests that anyone can conduct for small moneys, that is the concern for me, that we are sprayed no matter what without any public agreement on that case, they do what they want to do, oh and also because I love clear sky and sun and not hazy shitty cloudy day and a knowledge that the 50% of them are made artificialy by humans for some purpose that is keept in secret.
Now try to debunk that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AjrjHUssi4

I will also add that, planes are seen on those pictures with normal contrail that fly near and they leave no trace, so dont tell me its about temperature because they flying on even higher alttitude where theres colder.

edit: ohh we got new breivik in poland, till I got internet I will dig it up my self, because government has its own story already that he wanted to strike on them with some group of peoples and 4 tons of explosives : )
and you may have been wonder why they wanted to censor teh internet by sopa/pipa/acta ...