Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

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4. May 2010 - 10:38

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Hello there

I present myself : I'm GrosBedo, a dabbler in computers and science in general, and I'm currently a member of the community of OpenArena under the alias supeR,Grism.

I am currently in charge of making an opensource common configuration for all the servers of the OpenArena Clan League 2010, and your mod was chosen after much experimentation of many other solutions. The main reason was the netcode, including full delag for hitscan weapons, and adaptive delag for projectiles (plus the mean that we can change that setting to only unlag some weapons). There are many other reasons, but it will be too long and you already know them, we will simply say that your mod is the most complete, stable and clean I've seen yet.

For more infos on this project you can take a look here :

http://oa-cl.ucoz.org

I have some questions and suggestion to be able to fully reach my goal :

- How is working the netcode about delag ? I mean, is the full delag for hitscan a ripoff unfreeze/instagib open code, or did you update it with custom changes ? And projectiles delag, is it the same as CPMA 100ms auto adaptive hack (lagHax) ?

- What about HUD ? /hud and xp_hud doesn't seem to exist in current release, as I could read on the forum, are they removed until next release ? If yes, when the next release will happen (just a big guess, I know it can take an unknow time to code a free mod).

- We are currently using a modified version of GTV which fixes the sv_pure 1 bug and works on theoretically any OA server (some changes and it can be the same for Q3).
We would like to automate it as much as possible. In CPMA, there is the cg_autoAction bitmask var to set autochase on powerup/flag and attacker, and multiview. In XP (this is what I call E+ in reference to the vars), there is the TV Mode which is great, but is there a way to activate it automatically as a default view ? I didn't find how to do, I tried /follow tv, /follow 0, etc... but nothing...

- Is there a multiview without autorecord for spectators ? I mean, not necessarily view multiple screen at once, but get all flux without recording it. This would be great for GTV, because for now we need to use /ref then /startmvd to get all flux and tricking XP to provide a multiview show for GTV.

- Could you add a var to remove filtering of XP servers only in the future please ?

- Are you ok if I add our own menu background, since it is broken on OpenArena ? There will be of course a reference of ExcessivePlus, we by no means want to hide that it is based on your great mod !
For an image of what this will look like :
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4273/logoxpq.jpg

----------------------------

Ok that's all for now ! For all the rest, I already did a config and the servers are up.

Thank you for your time and your replies.

4. May 2010 - 11:15

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

I forwarded this thread to easy+ and beast+ for the case they don't see it by themself

4. May 2010 - 12:16

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

wrote:

I forwarded this thread to easy+ and beast+ for the case they don't see it by themself

Thank you very much sir !

4. May 2010 - 20:29

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

Hi GrosBedo.

wrote:

I am currently in charge of making an opensource common configuration for all the servers of the OpenArena Clan League 2010, and your mod was chosen after much experimentation of many other solutions. The main reason was the netcode, including full delag for hitscan weapons, and adaptive delag for projectiles (plus the mean that we can change that setting to only unlag some weapons). There are many other reasons, but it will be too long and you already know them, we will simply say that your mod is the most complete, stable and clean I've seen yet.

Hehe, I'm glad to hear that. After seeing no movement on the OA scene towards e+ I honestly thought that the OA version for xp was a wasted effort, but it seems it wasn't like that.

wrote:

- How is working the netcode about delag ? I mean, is the full delag for hitscan a ripoff unfreeze/instagib open code, or did you update it with custom changes ? And projectiles delag, is it the same as CPMA 100ms auto adaptive hack (lagHax) ?

Yeah, it is based on unlagged code with some differences/additions:

First, clients can't choose to disable unlagged, so xp_delagWeapons (which would resemble cg_delag) only affects the client effects, not the hitscan tests.
There is the xp_improvePrediction server cvar to try to send enemies information to clients earlier so enemies don't suddenly appear around corners for high pingers.
About the unlagged projectiles, they are fully unlagged, so if the client has 300 ping they will be delagged to that amount. However, they are unlagged only on low range, so on mid/high range they can still be dodged. To be a bit more technical, they will be fully unlagged for the first 250 msec of the projectile life, and from 250 to 350 msec the delag amount will be gradually reduced to zero so the transition between full delag/no delag is smoothed down a bit.

wrote:

- What about HUD ? /hud and xp_hud doesn't seem to exist in current release, as I could read on the forum, are they removed until next release ? If yes, when the next release will happen (just a big guess, I know it can take an unknow time to code a free mod).

Custom HUDs haven't been released yet, the feature is still on beta testing and on creation of sample/default huds. About the date for next release, I would roughly say about a month.

wrote:

- We are currently using a modified version of GTV which fixes the sv_pure 1 bug and works on theoretically any OA server (some changes and it can be the same for Q3).
We would like to automate it as much as possible. In CPMA, there is the cg_autoAction bitmask var to set autochase on powerup/flag and attacker, and multiview. In XP (this is what I call E+ in reference to the vars), there is the TV Mode which is great, but is there a way to activate it automatically as a default view ? I didn't find how to do, I tried /follow tv, /follow 0, etc... but nothing...

Currently you can cycle spectator mode only with mouse clicks. Will implement /follow tv tho.

wrote:

- Is there a multiview without autorecord for spectators ? I mean, not necessarily view multiple screen at once, but get all flux without recording it. This would be great for GTV, because for now we need to use /ref then /startmvd to get all flux and tricking XP to provide a multiview show for GTV.

You can /rcon set xp_maxMVD 1 to allow non-referees to record an mvd demo. However, there is no command to just send the flux of all players without entering into mvd playback mode, in which - among other things - tv mode doesn't work (there is a command to start mvd mode without recording demo, but that would be the only difference). If you want both tv mode for gtv and still have mvd demos, you can put gtv on tv mode but you will need an additional spectator to record mvds.

wrote:

- Could you add a var to remove filtering of XP servers only in the future please ?

On next release servers from all mods are listed, but xp servers will be at the top of the list.

wrote:

- Are you ok if I add our own menu background, since it is broken on OpenArena ? There will be of course a reference of ExcessivePlus, we by no means want to hide that it is based on your great mod !
For an image of what this will look like :
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4273/logoxpq.jpg

Can't remember the menu background being broken before. Anyway, we haven't tested xp on OA 0.8.5, where I think they modified most of the ui. In that case, I guess there won't be problems with that. However, do not modify the mod pk3s since that will create problems with pure servers, make an additional pk3 instead.

Había una vez un barco chiquito...

4. May 2010 - 23:01

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

Thank you very much for your quick reply ! Highly informative, but I've got more questions XD

wrote:

First, clients can't choose to disable unlagged, so xp_delagWeapons (which would resemble cg_delag) only affects the client effects, not the hitscan tests.

How does it effect the client exactly ? Disabling weapons delag on clients would make them not see the game as unlagged, but still get the benefits of unlagged code ?

wrote:

Custom HUDs haven't been released yet, the feature is still on beta testing and on creation of sample/default huds. About the date for next release, I would roughly say about a month.

Ok then we will update the servers with new release when it will be out, in one month it's unlikely that the league reach its end

Just one question about HUD : will it be possible to always draw the weapon switch bar ? This is a native var since OA 0.8.1 and some players miss it...

wrote:

If you want both tv mode for gtv and still have mvd demos, you can put gtv on tv mode but you will need an additional spectator to record mvds.

We don't need both, but at least one. In fact I configured CPMA servers to autofollow attacker and powerups/flags in warmup, and multiview as soon as the match begin. Would it be possible to automate one of these two options ? Like a cl_automvdrecord that activates as soon as the client connects (GTV behaves and is considered as any client).

wrote:

(there is a command to start mvd mode without
recording demo, but that
would be the only difference).

What is it please ? Would it still capture all the flux, without recording them ? If that's the case, that would be perfect !

wrote:

On next release servers from all mods are listed, but xp servers will be at the top of the list.

Great !

wrote:

However, do not modify the mod pk3s since that will create problems with pure servers, make an additional pk3 instead.

Our servers use a different folder name (oacl2010xp) so that doesn't conflict with the official mod

---------------

Ok now some new questions ! XD

* I would like to enforce server-side physics so the client's FPS don't matter, but I heard that pmove_fixed is very buggy. Did you corrected the code of this function ? What do you think if we use it, would it possibly produce buggy behaviour (lagged movements, erroneous predictions ?).

* The stencil shadow (/cg_shadows 3) permits players to see their opponents position through walls via their shadow. I know this is probably due to buggy maps with too much opened VIS and trix drawing, but would you be able to lock this setting client-side ? This is not a necessary feature, but this would be one possible cheat less...

That's all ! And feel free to visit our website and servers, Ive just updated the design

5. May 2010 - 16:37

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

wrote:

How does it effect the client exactly ? Disabling weapons delag on clients would make them not see the game as unlagged, but still get the benefits of unlagged code ?

Well, maybe not too far as not seing the game as unlagged, but the weapon effects like rail trails will be played only after receiving the information from the server.

wrote:

Just one question about HUD : will it be possible to always draw the weapon switch bar ? This is a native var since OA 0.8.1 and some players miss it...

Yes.

wrote:

We don't need both, but at least one. In fact I configured CPMA servers to autofollow attacker and powerups/flags in warmup, and multiview as soon as the match begin. Would it be possible to automate one of these two options ? Like a cl_automvdrecord that activates as soon as the client connects (GTV behaves and is considered as any client).

No, it can't be automated at the moment.

wrote:

What is it please ? Would it still capture all the flux, without recording them ? If that's the case, that would be perfect !

I'm not sure if that is what you want. It's EXACTLY the same as /startmvd (you even need /stopmvd to stop it), with the only difference that it doesn't record the demo. Anyway, if you are still interested, it's /start_mvd_cameras.

wrote:

* I would like to enforce server-side physics so the client's FPS don't matter, but I heard that pmove_fixed is very buggy. Did you corrected the code of this function ? What do you think if we use it, would it possibly produce buggy behaviour (lagged movements, erroneous predictions ?).

We haven't altered pmove_fixed and personally haven't done any experimentations on it, so if it was buggy in 1.32 then that means it's still buggy.

wrote:

* The stencil shadow (/cg_shadows 3) permits players to see their opponents position through walls via their shadow. I know this is probably due to buggy maps with too much opened VIS and trix drawing, but would you be able to lock this setting client-side ? This is not a necessary feature, but this would be one possible cheat less...

Wasn't aware of that option. Will check it.

Había una vez un barco chiquito...

5. May 2010 - 21:37

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

Thank you very much again !

About /start_mvd_cameras that's exactly what we needed !

About the automatic start of a viewing mode for GTV, would you be able to add it in the next release of E+ or is it too short on time for this release ?

And another thing Im just thinking : is it possible to use the new config syntax client-side ? I mean, the syntax with if and case and loops... Because if it's possible, I could script a config for GTV to cyclicly run the needed commands to start the multiview !

6. May 2010 - 0:09

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

wrote:

About the automatic start of a viewing mode for GTV, would you be able to add it in the next release of E+ or is it too short on time for this release ?

Will add a cvar (probably xp_onEnter) on next release to execute an action while entering a map.

wrote:

And another thing Im just thinking : is it possible to use the new config syntax client-side ? I mean, the syntax with if and case and loops... Because if it's possible, I could script a config for GTV to cyclicly run the needed commands to start the multiview !

No it's not possible.

Había una vez un barco chiquito...

6. May 2010 - 1:16

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Re: Using ExcessivePlus for an OpenArena league

Great ! Then I'm looking forward the next release !