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The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
20. September 2005 - 17:35
#111
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The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
wrote:... adult debate ...
I dont feel any adult writing at u, u repeating urself again, and again and again...., further a debate is "argueing and also recognice the posts of others and including posts of others in ur posts"
wrote:...moronic behaviour...
this is what i saw in more than one post of u, especially at beginning
wrote:a complete lack or desire to want to set any standard's
again, set all servers pb1, and u find no more action or even a full server, i am not interested to host "empty servers", and i am not interested to find "no challange". Ur wishes are still tryed, and it was a bad time, it is just "to late" for pb in x+ to set a new standard. ur satisfaction fit's just to other mods and "newer" games.
wrote:
I find myself having to explain myself time and time again simply because you dodge issues not me, I have stated a few clear fact's.
u stated ur facts, again, and again and again, but u didnt respond to any other post in here, i have the feeling u love to read urself lovely, u r not interested to debating, u just wanna read urself.
wrote:
a) Key community admin's are better than Even Balance software at detecting cheat's
By not using Punk Buster you have a far superior standard.
U r basicly right, but, because of the fact, that u dont recognize what others have written, u didnt saw, why here pb is not used much.
That what u wish, is tryed more than 1 time.
maybe u r blind, dunno.
so, now is my pizza finished, and i go to eat, the rest of ur post is also repeating urself, so, waste of time to comment it.
thx for reading (maybe this time)
22. September 2005 - 2:12
#113
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
ri0t, maybe u should run own servers with pb and show us your higher standart - better to do sth than only talk
maybe then you will be able understand why admins havent one line in their configs, if no then go away to some holy community where pb is on every server
its nice to have truth ever in hands, do you like to read your long posts? :}
i bet that yes, gj mr egotripper
22. September 2005 - 2:22
#114
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
Quote:
I do laugh at the amount of OMG's used in this thread, not from me but from those who seem to feel that adult debate is wrong or I am commiting a crime posting a valid argument. As I said before the issue here is plain for anyone with an educated mind, you would rather I didn't try to argue my case in an organised adult fashion, you despise the fact that I have even attempted to add some structure to this rather old debate. The previous thread's surrounding this issue were hijacked by insult's and moronic behaviour including the same old flannel based on total denil of the fact's, in fact it is the same people who are doing the same again in this thread, as I said a certain element has really hard time managing themselves in a mature fashion coupled with a complete lack or desire to want to set any standard's within the community be it server based or forum based, this also appears to be endorsed by the mod team as well to some degree.
Riot, it has come to my obvious attention that you are continually using a very 'Verbose' type of Language. Continually pointing out such that you are a mature and adult speaker, and anyone that is educated will understand, is this necessary? For goodness sake, your not the only 'Educated person' here. (You never said that, but you made it quite obvious).
Now, without the 'Verbose' Language, I would like to add a comment as an Admin of a few servers myself, that Yes, PB is a lot better at detecting cheats and what not, but its the manage principles behind it. Tweaking is a necessity in PB, and needs to be managed. Many a people choose not to play with PB, (Evidence is: There are no people around!)
As was mentioned earlier, PB is too late to set the expectations in E+.
But Riot, Please explain in further detail: Admins are setting a low Standard. Explain, this is amusing me by the second. Just because PB is not enabled, you feel they are setting a low standard? How the Online Gaming Industry is moving on, and thus you come to the conclusion that WE are setting low standards because we are not moving on? Have you even considered that due to the lateness of PB arriving in E+, it is merely impossible for it to be migrated into E+, and to follow the gaming industry? My dear friend, you have a lot to learn. If E+ was to follow such a path, well, It would not grow. Consider the ratio of cheaters that are around E+ against other communites. Go figure.
How many years did you do in Psy.? 
22. September 2005 - 4:27
#115
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
i have a few points
1- PB SUCKS AND I DONT CHEAT
2- CD KEY .. Heres why:
Long time ago i had a cracked quake, then after a few years i got internet dsl acces. I play online like 2 months but not a single server accept my already taken cd key 
. so it was there.. a mod called Excessive !! I join and walaa i kould play on it 
then i saw players flying around the server and what a sorprise !! MULTI JUMP !!. Then i start playing more constantly and meet a few nice guys. After that wonderfull e+ initiation i decide to buy a OG quake and start joining other mods .. but if wasnt for this great comunity that allows and tolerate many abusive players and actions (i dont have to argue about it) i will go away and move my ass to another Game .. and many players i help to join e+ will not be here and comunity will not grow like now .. im not saying kouse me .. but is a chain .. thanks to programes of this mod quake is growing HUUUGE and we are preparing to move to quake IV 
where e+ will be and no pb 2 !! so we kan make a great komunity and admins like this...
25. September 2005 - 2:32
#116
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
It's been a few days now Riot, you are yet to respond.
25. September 2005 - 15:19
#117
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
The why's, if's, but's and not's are not up for debate, the debate is wether you set a poor standard not using Punk Buster, using Punk Buster versus not using it does set a poor standard (fact). Punk Buster does a better job of detecting cheater's than any administrator worldwide (fact).
How many time's do you have to have it explained to you? Your standard's are less then desirable considering how capable PunkBuster is of catching cheater's. You keep asking for fact's and figures I know the above fact's to be true, how can you tell me anything if you do not use Punk Buster other than basing everything on the hunch of an admin, which for the record has a habit of being less than perfect.
Punk Buster is THE perfect tool for maintaining gaming standard's. As I said before it's quantity versus quality. Less server's better standard's, more server's crap standard's and let's face it two third's of all E+ server's are empty most of the time. I made my case for the use of PB based upon your standard's being less than desirable given the use of cheat's online and also Punk Buster's proven track record of catching nearly all, you on the other hand live in some kind of fantasy world where admin's are better than Even Balance software.
In an age were Q3 cost's $10 - $15, Punk Buster is free, cable connection's and decent server rental's are getting ever cheaper worldwide there is no excuse not to use the tool's provided and set good standard's, unless of course you live in such a poor country that Q3 cost's the equivalent of a month's wages (or a good milk cow)
I've heard all the lame ass excuses from the maker's and shaker's here and it all boil's down to girly lame ass winging. The software was always there (since 2001ish), the support and research was always there, the mean's was always there (for more organised group's) the only thing lacking was the incentive and will power to set a good standard. So no I don't agree with any of your lame ass excuses, you set the standard from day one, if it became so entrenched that you cannot stop it then that is your fault, end of.
Punk Buster is the better standard.
Dodge, weave, deny, abuse, stamp your feet and have tanrum's all you want the key player's set the standard's and the one's they set were very poor. Maybe hard to accept on your part but that's not my problem, it's an issue you have with yourselve's.
That aside there is an interesting article over at Gamecloud : An interview with Tony Ray from Punk Buster.
Quote:
Gamecloud - How hard is it to keep up with all of the exploits in the many games Punkbuster is used in?Tony Ray - It is not hard to keep up with public cheats which has always been our focus. As those are under control virtually all the time, we spend quite a lot of resources finding new ways to detect punks running private cheat. The honest player/admin community is a big help in that effort as we have numerous contributors who send us leaked private cheats and hacks that we use to develop new cheat detection patterns and algorithms. Even the ones who think they are safe with some secret eventually get caught.
25. September 2005 - 16:42
#118
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
its not the perfect tool for gaming standards as servers are empty if its on, how are your gaming standards with no players?
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25. September 2005 - 16:49
#119
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
I will use larger font as it seems U cant read some posts. Hope it helps! If its still not ok plz use your browser settings to enlarge text a little bit more!! Now ok??
1. We dont need ur perfect standarts (fact)
2. Punkbuster is not "THE perfect tool for maintaining gaming standard's" as u said (fact)
3. U dont even bother to reply questions - and ur beheviour is quite ignorrant (fact)
4. U sound like snob - ("unless of course you live in such a poor country that Q3 cost's the equivalent of a month's wages (or a good milk cow)") (fact)
5. Most of ppl do not want to hear you (fact) so plz shut up at last and move to another mod with better standarts (kind suggestion) as we dont need eggocentric troublemakers here. Everybody will be happy. E+ as we wont have to mess with ur boring ego tripping - and U will be glad coze of perfect standarts in some other mods. Bye!
25. September 2005 - 16:56
#120
The Community Admins Set a Poor Standard
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Thing is I know I am right, problem with this debate before is that everyone has tried to start with "Oh why not enable Punk Buster" and it is met with the usual childish tirade of abuse. I on the other hand dealt with it on the ground's that YOU the key community administrator's set a poor standard by not using it. If I thought I wasn't right then I wouldn't have made such a bold statement.
So after all the replies, excuses, hassle and abuse you finally except that Punk Buster is the better standard for preventing cheat's. I do laugh and am amazed that you feel hard done by, by admiting the truth, maybe I should feel hard done by and go into a childish frenzy of name calling and OMG, OMG?
Maybe not eh
The current server standard's versus PunkBuster are sub standard at cheat detection, the reason's for you not having Punk Buster enabled are not part of this debate, some may say that to keep making excuses is girly winging? ("Yeah but, yeah but, yeah but") Wether you choose to enable Punkbuster or not is your call, I unlike other's have not said you should, I have on the other hand said I feel the key administrator's should try to set an example and a good standard, it's an argument based around the ethic's of online gaming and the responsibility you have of setting an example to the rest of the community.
Set standard's or not the choice is your's the sad part is I know the same supporter's of server's that offer player's no protection from cheater's or video game piracy will try to carry the same standard's over to Quake 4. If you consider yourself a real Quake fan and a supporter of the industry then you will support Even Balance and everything they stand for.
Quake 3 maybe an old game but with that kind of support and dedication I know where my support lies. CD key check's, cheat check's and in-game setting's check's are all a key factor in protecting gamer's and maintaning standard's. You either support setting standard's or not, obviously the majority of administrator's here do not.
Such is life, I doubt you will not loose any sleep over it, I know I won't but I also know I am 100% right. It's been amusing this thread, be it a little predictable......