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[Closed] 1.04 whine
1. November 2009 - 2:34
#11
1.04 whine
![[MR.]MIRCWAR](/files/screenname/47ad4738fd00e756c21d82e6c568b7f4.webp "[MR.]MIRCWAR"){kind=small}
wrote:1. Movement.
It feels more real, baseq3 alike. It seems faster, jumps carry you a bit further. BFG jumps actually work, grenade jumps always carry you forward. All in all it feels better, you can actually move around the map.
That is because of the air control, specifically the PHYSICS_CONTROL_STOP option. Test it on plusbeta (not plusc as it has also that option turned on) and only then you can compare.
wrote:2. Sensitivity
Sensitivity is definetly changed, it feels more exact in 1.03 although I'm not sure it's infact slower. Tracking is spot on, and rails fire off immiediatly and hit.
Does different necessarily means worse? I can see on vsp stats you and skull have nice rail acc, and i doubt it was better on 1.03. Also the whole sens change is somewhat subjective, because if you measure it you will see that is the same. Maybe it "feels" different for other reasons, like aspect ratio fix or changes on client side rendering.
wrote:The sensitivity/rail in 1.04 feels strange, shots seem to hit to the side and this is extremely frustrating as you never get a feel for where you hit and where you don't. Fragging is guesswork, whereas in 1.03 it was instinctive.
Rail trails were FIXED on 1.04 so now they come out as close as possible to the muzzle point. If you want rail trails to originate from the center of the screen, place the weapon on the center of the screen then with a combination of cg_gunXYZ values (cg_gunY alone would do the job, a value like 5 or 7).
wrote:Perfect post laktos, couldn't agree more. Also there are a lot of problems with the railing as most noticed, when u shoot but the target doesn't die (rail doesn't count in, or register as a hit). That's extremely frustrating and I got the die out of my keyboard as in how many times I pressed the "that sucks" bind. 1.03 feels better in many things, frmo shooting to moving. I don't recall any rail that I had missed because the shot wouldn't register, though I shot the enemy clear. That sucks anus a lot. Aiming is also very nice in 1.03, it feels different, maybe more accurate and I hope my memory doesn't play tricks on me now. I also tested 1.03 - 1.04... the differences are enormous.. That's it from me, see ya on the servers.
O really? You have never been a good railer if i remember right, so you have no basis to say such things. From my experience, when i see my vsp stats from 1.03 and compare them to 1.04, surprisingly they are almost the same, both accuracy and efficiency, so cant say that i hit more/less with either version.
wrote:in fact, 1.03 netcode was very stable and i never had a problem hitting when i was supposed to hit, while in 1.04 sometimes i totally feel like shooting ahead and hit, following and miss.
The hitscan code hasnt changed since 1.03, its and has always been unlagged. 1.04 just implements its client-side features.
wrote:In 1.03 you generally had a good orientational feel for where you were in relation to your opponents. In 1.04 I feel much more lost, at first i suspected that colouring or fov was different but comparing screenshots this doesn't seem to be the case. I can only attribute it to the different sensitivity, I lack the control I had in 1.03. Example, running down MH stairs to RA in dm7. This feels haphazard and without much control.
Aiming while running up/down stairs have always been difficult, cant feel a change at all.
wrote:Another obeservation is that you get blitzed in a whole different way in 1.04, you (I and atleast another person I've asked) often don't register when oppontens attack and enter a room. They just suddenly appear infront of you. This is NOT the case in 1.03.
I strongly suspect that this is a combined effect of several "fixes", like the improved prediction (replaced cg_smoothclients?), the jumpbug fix and a few others that are hinted at in changelog.
wrote:however, i really would like to rechange those both bits, same goes to improveprediction.
This is completely false, and i would really like you both to stop spreading false rumors about xp_improvePrediction. As it seems that you both dont know what it is for, i made a video for you see it in action, video is a bit too big but considering euros have tons of bandwith it shoudlnt be too much:
xp_improvePrediction.wmv - 148 mbs
First part of the video has xp_improvePrediction off, and second part is on, notice how much more responsive is with the option turned on when you enter the room, and the difference is bigger the higher the ping is (btw, cg_latentSnaps and cg_latentCmds are dev cvars to simulate internet ping).
THATS ALL WHAT THAT OPTION IS FOR, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION WITH PHYSICS, SPLASH DAMAGE OR NETCODE. It just send information to client earlier so enemies dont suddenly appear when you enter a room. Imo is a really nice feature, and if you dont think the same after watching the video, then dunno what to say...
And about cg_smoothClients, the hole option was removed from beta6 because all the skipping correction is done server-side, as it is on unlagged mod too.
1. November 2009 - 3:44
#12
Germany
1.04 whine
wrote:
2. SensitivitySensitivity is definetly changed, it feels more exact in 1.03 although I'm not sure it's infact slower. Tracking is spot on, and rails fire off immiediatly and hit.
Does different necessarily means worse? I can see on vsp stats you and skull have nice rail acc, and i doubt it was better on 1.03. Also the whole sens change is somewhat subjective, because if you measure it you will see that is the same. Maybe it "feels" different for other reasons, like aspect ratio fix or changes on client side rendering.
was hitting 50+ on pub more often in 1.03 x)
honestly, give us a xp_aspectratiofix 0 then, since its clientside i really would like to disable such stuff! 
wrote:
Rail trails were FIXED on 1.04 so now they come out as close as possible to the muzzle point. If you want rail trails to originate from the center of the screen, place the weapon on the center of the screen then with a combination of cg_gunXYZ values (cg_gunY alone would do the job, a value like 5 or 7).
i got cg_drawgun 0, thx.
on another note, this fix might destroy things people were used to over the time, they always knew where there rail is aimed at when they clicked, no matter what print, the new print feels odd and sluggish, give us a command to turn it off pls too x)
wrote:
in fact, 1.03 netcode was very stable and i never had a problem hitting when i was supposed to hit, while in 1.04 sometimes i totally feel like shooting ahead and hit, following and miss.The hitscan code hasnt changed since 1.03, its and has always been unlagged. 1.04 just implements its client-side features.
such as clientside prediction/interpolation u were talking about to me, forgott? give us a command to revert it too pls.
wrote:
however, i really would like to rechange those both bits, same goes to improveprediction.This is completely false, and i would really like you both to stop spreading false rumors about xp_improvePrediction. As it seems that you both dont know what it is for, i made a video for you see it in action, video is a bit too big but considering euros have tons of bandwith it shoudlnt be too much:
all my feelings tell me that the overall aiming feels completly different, especially while shafting while jumping or riding down stairs, and that since the improveprediction fix.
dont get me wrong, i know exactly what its supposed to fix, and it does that actually, i was one of the first to report it.
without improveprediction, only way is to make the recive data time as minimal as possible by greatly incrasing sv_maxfps.
after all, there is a odd slightly delay in whatever fix in excessiveplus, maybe even because of ur all praised dll, because it runs way slower then a normal mod qvm.
and u can put any stuff into ur dll, even ur own hidden private hack if u really want beast, or some kind of virus.
for sure we all "trust" u into not doing that, but heh, if the e+ server gets hacked to next release we got tons of bullshit running then 
1. November 2009 - 4:59
#13
1.04 whine
I propose server-config option to use 1.03 style physics or new style physics. Config makers will have the option to use new physics for whatever reason or revert to old style (e.g., xp_physics 2 for "promode-like" physics) for their setup. This will enable us to return to more familiar Plus.cfg-style gameplay on PlusN without the downside of not knowing where in the hell we're going to end up after a BFG slide, where we're going to land after a rocket jump in a tight passage, etc.
I think this will also fix the sensitivity issues people are having. Physics controls how you move, and when you aim you are moving side to side and up or down. The var g_speed has a definite effect on your aiming, so it stands to reason that using the OLD 1.03 style of physics here may restore the gameplay of 1.03 in movement while allowing us to completely take advantage of all of the improvements Beast has put into the mod as well as what Fala has done with PlusN.cfg
Please consider testing this option so we can retain our play style through our own cfg settings while enjoying the new features and bugfixes.
1. November 2009 - 5:35
#14
1.04 whine
wrote:was hitting 50+ on pub more often in 1.03 x)
honestly, give us a xp_aspectratiofix 0 then, since its clientside i really would like to disable such stuff!
xp_aspectRatio is there since rc1.
wrote:i got cg_drawgun 0, thx.
on another note, this fix might destroy things people were used to over the time, they always knew where there rail is aimed at when they clicked, no matter what print, the new print feels odd and sluggish, give us a command to turn it off pls too x)
Already told cg_gunXYZ cvars are there.
wrote:such as clientside prediction/interpolation u were talking about to me, forgott? give us a command to revert it too pls.
Im pretty sure i might have said that in some explanation of xp_improvePrediction or cl_timenudge, so actually nothing in the hitscan code has changed since 1.03.
wrote:all my feelings tell me that the overall aiming feels completly different, especially while shafting while jumping or riding down stairs, and that since the improveprediction fix.
Your senses are wrong then, as you have been wrong with several people you thought they cheated. I felt no change from beta5 to beta6, in which it was implemented (I DID feel a change from 1.03 to 1.04).
wrote:after all, there is a odd slightly delay in whatever fix in excessiveplus, maybe even because of ur all praised dll, because it runs way slower then a normal mod qvm.
and u can put any stuff into ur dll, even ur own hidden private hack if u really want beast, or some kind of virus.
for sure we all "trust" u into not doing that, but heh, if the e+ server gets hacked to next release we got tons of bullshit running then
You dont know what you are talking about, that can be done with qvm as well. Also by no way .dll is slower than .qvm, because its machine code and doesnt need to be interpreted as .qvm code is.
wrote:I propose server-config option to use 1.03 style physics or new style physics.
xp_physics = 3 (PHYSICS_CONTROL_FORWARD | PHYSICS_CONTROL_SIDEWARD) is the same as 1.03 xp_physics 2.
1. November 2009 - 6:25
#15
1.04 whine
Maybe what we need to do then is let people know that this new setting is the equivalent of what we're used to in 1.03, because it seems most new cfgs have xp_physics 7 or something like that? 8? Can't remember.
I tried playing tonight on an updated server with brand new mouse skates, freshly cleaned mouse-pad, everything set up like new, and found it almost unplayable. My aim was everywhere but where I expected it to be. This is unusual because I played a few games in Quake Live just beforehand and played VERY well.
1. November 2009 - 6:43
#16
1.04 whine
In case it is simply an issue with the physics which we're experiencing (because plusN.cfg physics are different from 1.03 Plus.cfg physics?) I'm emailing Fala about it and seeing if we can test old-style 1.03 promode-like physics
1. November 2009 - 9:20
#18
1.04 whine
Can one of you kind sirs explain what xp_aspectratio is for? I suspect it's for disabling custom aspect (like r_customaspect) but I'm certain I could be totally wrong. It was not in my cfg so I added it with a value of "0" (I play at r_mode 3).
1. November 2009 - 10:10
#19
Sweden
1.04 whine
xp_aspectratio is default at 1:
Quote:
fix: aspect ratio for resolutions other then 4:3
now you can play quake in full HD without streched hud/text
As for the sens, I would say I acc about the same in 1.03 (i think I average a little lower) atleast after i upped my sens and fov. That is what strikes me as odd, but movement is definetely more difficult and erratic - in this i include aiming and tracking.
And, I guess, the only people benefiting from the changes are high pingers and laggers. But why couldn't the cvars stay clientside? What real difference does it make?
1. November 2009 - 10:56
#20
1.04 whine
Just wondering, has anyone tested your plus config with the xp_physics setting that Beast said?
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Now were getting somewhere. Instead of maintaining that nothing is changed you could have said this from the start so we wouldn't have to speculate. We (yes we who don't play the game just for relaxation 15 minutes every week anymore, but want to play it as good as possible. And have played for several years.) actually do feel a very real difference for the worse.
Personally I don't give a shit about people popping up earlier behind corners with this improved prediction, i never had a problem with it with a snaps value of 40. What I'm interested in is if wheter it affects the players when they bfg themselves in, move or whatever since they seem very hard to hit.
Changing the gunY value GIVES a better feel, but the sensitivity is still there messing it up. *
The fact of the matter is I see this release as barely playable, it is not necesseraily bad but compared to 1.03 it is inferior. If it's all about the physics as you seem to claim, I guess we'll never find out since I have consistently tried to convince fala to turn it off but to no avail. If it's off on plusc I'm very sceptical about it being the only thing that affects this. **
I'm highly sceptical about the skipping correction too, then. Since I don't really trust you with feeling any difference is there any way to see if this affects sensitivity/tracking/players just popping up.
EDIT:
*xp_aspectratio 0 indeed improves sensitivity, this is the kind of information that should be provided in bold letters on the first page. Anyways I hope I don't come across as too arrogant. Will have to test it some more against 1.03.
**read now you said it was off on plusbeta, any server which runs this?