Ethics in Using Commands

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ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

We have regular weapon switch buttons. But when the same actions are repeated over and over, it feels like driving a manual transmission in a big city. The art of scripting wouldn't be art if it didn't involve getting rid of such routine scenarios. I play most of the time with the Railgun, but it would be nice to have a button that, when pressed, switches to Rocket first, fires, then switches to BFG, fires, and then switches back to Railgun, allowing me to choose the moment to shoot with the mouse button. This would be convenient during routine moments, considering that the animation switch delay is always respected. This is just my subjective opinion. If this is not prohibited, I will create a topic in the future where we can discuss useful scripts in different areas with players, not just game mechanics.

rUnThEoN?!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Hi there,
so you won't get any better answer then from me I guess, so here we go:
1) About com_maxfps - it is important to know the origin of that value. back in the days when defrag started, they had to agree on a ruleset for trickjumping competition. This made it mandatory to have stable physics. with the default maxfps the jump height is sometimes 47 units, sometimes 48 units.to stabilise that, they worked on the magic number that A - always give 48 units and B - all computers could reasonable achieve. Now Imagine how much fps you get with a gefore 3 ti and a pentium 3. So 125 it is.there are 3 more of those magic numbers, but 333 is the next one. It would be forbidden in Defrag, but using 333 is a disadvantage in any shooter mod due to increased airtime from 56 units jumpheight.With the advanced technology it would be foolish to enforce 125 fps.
2) as stated, with unlagged we basically dont need timenudge.The problem is that when someone stops exactly at a corner when he is not visible, timenudge would nudge him -20 around the corner.So it isnt big of a problem, but in a matter of fairness lowping players should not use timenudge. And in a matter of fairness if high ping players dont start with it, everyone doesnt use nudge and we can all agree on if that was a hit or not by unlagged.
3) as stated - do not use vstr to your advantage. for example doing a script for a perfect nade+rj combo would be quite lame. a simple rocketjumpscript is already lame, because you can not fail that rocketjump. Regular players have to deal with failing jumps from time to time, especially under pressure.The real Problem is - if you allow scripting of anything else then regular settings, were do you draw the line. how much are people allowed to script. You could script automaticly wiggling with just one button instead of pressing a or d.Since all of that is lame, we dislike to see it.
btw, the last person to automate weapon change scripts got quite the dishonour for weapon jams...

getting kicked because of cheating is either because of cheats or because of faulty mouse button. there is no other option. the anticheat will also pick up weird scripts as cheats when they include any option to fire weapons.

hurrenson: "This idiot is apparently not familiar with a rail/sniper style."

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

About JUSTICE. Dialogue with GPT


What is justice?

GPT
Justice is a multifaceted concept in philosophy, ethics, and law, tied to fairness, equality, and moral norms. It involves distributing resources based on merit or need and ensuring equal application of laws without bias.


What is justice in Quake III Arena Excessive Plus?

GPT
Fairness in Quake III Arena, especially in the Excessive Plus mod, is about balancing gameplay to ensure equal enjoyment. This includes equal access to weapons and items, balanced weapons with distinct strengths and weaknesses, and fair server settings that apply equally to all players. Fair play is key, meaning no cheats or unfair advantages should be used.


Everyone understands this by default, that's how it is. For example, take Counter-Strike competitions. Don't the players there have equally powerful computers and the same ping? Doesn't everyone play at the highest possible FPS and with the lowest possible ping?

GPT
Yes, exactly! In Counter-Strike competitions or other esports games, players often compete under identical conditions, which creates a foundation for fair competition. Here are several important aspects that contribute to fairness in such competitions:

  1. Identical conditions: All players use the same equipment, which eliminates advantages related to hardware. This includes not only computer power but also settings such as FPS and mouse sensitivity.
  2. Low-ping servers: The use of servers that provide minimal latency is also critical. This allows all players to act on equal terms, without facing delays that could affect their performance.
  3. Standardized settings: In esports, standardized settings are often used to ensure all players have equal opportunities. For example, identical rules about allowed or prohibited tactics, rules about the use of auxiliary programs, etc.
  4. Honesty and rules: An important aspect is strict adherence to rules and honesty. The use of cheats or rule violations can seriously affect the perception of fairness, even if all other conditions are equal.

Well, when I join an Excessive Plus server, it's impossible to achieve such fairness, isn't it? Because ping varies in different parts of the world? Everyone's computer power is different. For instance, I can play with a ping of 56 ms, someone from Russia plays with 80 ms ping, and someone from Africa plays with 160 ms. The server is located in Great Britain, so British players can play with a ping of 21-23 ms. I can play with 333 FPS physics, which gives slightly higher jumps. But some guys can only play on weak computers at no more than 125 FPS. Would it be fair to increase the ping to an average of 50 ms for Great Britain, and allow players with 80 ms ping to use the command cl_timeNudge -30 to make their ping 50? Would it be fair to limit players who have powerful computers and monitors capable of 250+ FPS to 125 FPS instead of 500 or 333 FPS, for example? Or should everyone accept that the world is unfair and some people have a Lamborghini they didn't earn but was gifted to them, while I don't have one?

GPT
You raise very interesting and complex questions about fairness in the context of online gaming, especially when it comes to aspects like ping, FPS, and hardware. Let's break down a few key points.
Different gameplay conditions: Indeed, due to differences in ping, FPS, and hardware, achieving absolute fairness in online games is difficult. Varying conditions can affect gameplay, making it less predictable and fair. This is a reality that many players face.
Ping compensation: Your idea of using the cl_timeNudge command to compensate for ping sounds logical. It could help level the playing field for players with different pings, allowing everyone to play under more equal conditions. However, this might also lead to other issues, for example, players with lower ping might feel that this makes the game less fair for them.
FPS limitation: Limiting FPS for high-end computers could also seem like a fair solution, as it would even out the opportunities. But this could be a controversial issue, as players with more powerful systems may have invested in their equipment to gain a competitive edge. Limiting their capabilities might cause dissatisfaction.
Accepting unfairness: Ultimately, as you pointed out, the world isn’t always fair, and this applies not only to esports but to life in general. Some people may have better equipment, while others have better conditions. Players need to accept these realities and adapt, using their skills and strategies.


"Surrender, sinner,"
says Saint Father Patrick,
overtaking in his Ferrari.

rUnThEoN?!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

you just demonstrated the vagueness of chatgpt, because language models dont understand complex questions that way. it answered generally without specific examples.
Please do not use chatgpt because it doesnt help your topic.

hurrenson: "This idiot is apparently not familiar with a rail/sniper style."

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Where to like such messages?
I ask everyone to pay more attention to my questions than to GPT's answers. I ask everyone to think about the topic of justice.

rUnThEoN?! wrote:
you just demonstrated the vagueness of chatgpt, because language models dont understand complex questions that way. it answered generally without specific examples.Please do not use chatgpt because it doesnt help your topic.

rUnThEoN?!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Justice doesn't exist, there is no justice molecul or atom.Justice is a subjective thing when people do it and an objective thing if logic does it.
you are not here to find your personal justice, we cant give you that.
you are here because you want free use of whatever shenanigans you are trying to do, means you want to change houserules of specific servers?

hurrenson: "This idiot is apparently not familiar with a rail/sniper style."

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

So are we agreeing on standards or is this unrealistic in your opinion?

rUnThEoN?!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

we agreed on standards decades ago, all info has been posted.
you are free to use scripts that do not give you an advantage over players who don't know how to scripts.you are free to use timenudge under the pretext that lowping players can use nudge to see the future.
if you want objective justice, you are free to spawn your own server with lowping and your rules.

hurrenson: "This idiot is apparently not familiar with a rail/sniper style."

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

If there is something like an honor code according to Excessive Plus standards, then please provide a link, I will take a look at this bible. This is important to me.

rUnThEoN?!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

that has been lost over the decades. my answer are probably as close as you get with the honor rules.

note that any topic should be judged by its implications on the fun and competitiveness of the game. Using scripts to abuse a specific gamemechanic when others can not is no fun, neither is it competition. Topics not yet discussed can lead to penaltys when used ingame eventhough there was no rule set up for that yet.
this was especially true on the guys using methods improving their game getting banned eventhough there was no rule in place for it yet.

basically whatever you do, ask yourself - is it fun for me? is it fun for others? is it competitive for me, is it competitive for others?
for example altering enemymodels and sound for advantage isn't fun nor competitive.
Using picmip 16 instead of zero is fun and competitive.

basically, take your railgun and shoot your keels/tankjrs. there is no need to overcomplicate things.

hurrenson: "This idiot is apparently not familiar with a rail/sniper style."