Ethics in Using Commands

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ANABOLIC 007
Vladimir Putin's picture
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Hello everyone! I’m here with a question for the creators of Excessive Plus. First of all, I want to thank you for this truly wonderful modification and its flexibility. Although I'm relatively new to this community and started playing Quake in January 2023, I’ve become very interested in configurations and some automation. I primarily train with various physics configurations and client configurations on my own server. The client configurations have captivated me, as I also play on popular Excessive Plus servers.

However, I often have disputes with veteran players about the ethics of using commands from the official Excessive Plus documentation. The DM Elitez administration has also kicked me out several times for "cheating," even though these were commands from the official documentation. DM Elitez administration, I love your server and all your servers dearly. Please forgive me if my curiosity about game settings bothers you. I especially appreciate your efforts in creating amazing servers!

Questions about the ethics of using some client commands:
1. com_maxFPS 333 — I found that a 125 FPS cap on my 165Hz monitor isn’t very appealing. I used the refresh rate sync with r_displayrefresh 165, r_swapinterval 1, com_maxFPS 250, and accidentally stumbled upon com_maxFPS 333. I felt a nice change in physics (I still play at 333). I was surprised and shared this with many players. Some of them now play at 333 FPS, while those with lower-end computers often criticize me for cheating. It’s hard to agree on standards here since some monitors exceed 200Hz, so FPS should be adjusted from 250, with options being limited: 125, 250, 333, 500, or refresh rate sync, which sometimes causes slight lag. Can I use com_maxFPS 333? Is it cheating?

2. cl_timeNudge — Players from Great Britain playing on DM Elitez have a ping of about 15-20 ms. Players from Russia have a ping starting at 50 ms and above. Why is it considered unethical to equalize the ping for players from Russia to 20 ms using the command cl_timeNudge -30? Maybe we should better agree on average ping standards rather than discussing the ethics of using cl_timeNudge? What’s fair about not using cl_timeNudge if those geographically closer to the servers have an initial advantage?

3. vstrTHE MAIN QUESTION, a variable that allows using command sets:
• Can I even use command sets with vstr? Is it ethical and legal in terms of gameplay?
• Some sets are harmless, like visual changes of the player with one key, which include changing the name, player model, flag, and Railgun beam colors. But for example, I want to automate RocketJump. Is this considered cheating? I was kicked from DM Elitez for this.
• Is automating weapon switching considered cheating if the automation cannot bypass the minimum 140 ms delay from the switch animation?
• What categories of commands are considered cheating?
• Is there a list of commands prohibited not only from the official Excessive Plus documentation but also those banned in regular Quake III Arena, as there are many of those too?

P.S. J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban, "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good."

That's not a belly, that's my equipment wrapped up.

FUBAR*ELITE'Z
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

The DM Elitez administration has also kicked me out several times for "cheating,"
What was the name of the admin that kicked you?
Or anti-cheat kicked you?

FUBAR*ELITE'Z
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Since moving to E+ over 15 years ago we went with the normal settings that E+ servers used
Also at the time for Clan Wars and Fun Wars
Other servers allow different settings like rate 50000 for example

Rate 25000
Max packets 60-125
Snaps 30-125
Max fps 125
Timenudge 0

At the end of the day you go by the rules of whatever server your playing in, at anytime

superbad!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

1) fps - use whatever gives you the best fps/feeling. its up to other players to upgrade their hardware to have a good fps, they should not complain about that but im not suprised if they do.

2) cl_timenudge - always controversial, as far as i know its not needed with unlagged netcode. this was used a long time ago before unlagged was introduced. now it just has a negative affect for others and whilst your ping displays lower, its not true. i can understand admins being against this.

3) vstr - i dont see a problem with using it for rocket jump, or toggling game settings. you shouldnt need it for rocket jump in e+ though, as the precision required is not the same as default quake or other mods. i would not use it for weapons, as you can just bind the weapons to keys - this is how people play. a vstr script would take the thinking out of choosing which weapon to switch to.

Deathadder | Goliathus Speed | Filco Majestouch | i7 3770 | 16GB | GTX 1080 | Xonar Essence ST | Sennheiser HD598

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

The names of the administrators were different. But I'm not complaining. I just wanted to know what is right from everyone's point of view. I was thrown out with a message something like “for cheating”, I don’t remember the exact wording. But they were obviously watching me at first, because it didn’t throw me out right away.

That's not a belly, that's my equipment wrapped up.

ANABOLIC 007
Vladimir Putin's picture
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

I have great respect for ELITEZ's tremendous work. Thank you for your wonderful servers!

FUBAR*ELITE'Z wrote:

Since moving to E+ over 15 years ago we went with the normal settings that E+ servers used
Also at the time for Clan Wars and Fun Wars
Other servers allow different settings like rate 50000 for example

Rate 25000
Max packets 60-125
Snaps 30-125
Max fps 125
Timenudge 0

At the end of the day you go by the rules of whatever server your playing in, at anytime

That's not a belly, that's my equipment wrapped up.

ANABOLIC 007
Vladimir Putin's picture
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

It was very important for me to hear an opinion from the Excessive Plus side. Thank you very much for the clarification. I think this message will put an end to many of my arguments.

superbad! wrote:

1) fps - use whatever gives you the best fps/feeling. its up to other players to upgrade their hardware to have a good fps, they should not complain about that but im not suprised if they do.

2) cl_timenudge - always controversial, as far as i know its not needed with unlagged netcode. this was used a long time ago before unlagged was introduced. now it just has a negative affect for others and whilst your ping displays lower, its not true. i can understand admins being against this.

3) vstr - i dont see a problem with using it for rocket jump, or toggling game settings. you shouldnt need it for rocket jump in e+ though, as the precision required is not the same as default quake or other mods. i would not use it for weapons, as you can just bind the weapons to keys - this is how people play. a vstr script would take the thinking out of choosing which weapon to switch to.

That's not a belly, that's my equipment wrapped up.

kszksz
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Any script that automates gameplay for you, such as switching weapons, rocket jumps etc., is considered cheating. Want to change FOV, zoom, etc be my guest. The biggest offender is combo weapon switch: fire a shot from a shotgun, automatically change to a LG powerful af - SG will knock the enemy back and LG will finish it off for you.

While maxfps is changing physics slightly most of servers will enforce this setting to standardise gameplay for everyone

And even I walk through the darkest valley of the shadow of death I will be not afraid because I am the worst motherfucker in this place.

FUBAR*ELITE'Z
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

I was thrown out with a message something like “for cheating”

That's the anti cheat system that's kicked you out, not a real person

ANABOLIC 007
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

Any script that automates the process for me?
Official Documentation -> Client -> Client Cvars & Commands -> vstr - this function is responsible for combining commands. Doesn’t the concept work for you?
"Is considered cheating" and "I consider it cheating" are different things, which is why I raised this topic.
Regarding weapon switching automation: Automation in switching cannot be instant, as there is a minimum delay due to the weapon switching animation. Plus, on the server, this delay can be increased in individual settings. Because of this, you won’t be able to switch weapons instantly. I agree with you that machines think faster than humans, but if there’s a proper delay for the animation, why not automate this process? Server administration can always adjust the delay settings to their preference.
Regarding RocketJump automation: Due to the lack of branching options for "if" and "else" constructions in standard client configuration files, it's impossible to automate an optimal angle for the jump. RocketJump is an actual art form. You always need to choose the correct shooting angle in addition to the right moment. Therefore, I don’t consider this cheating, but I don’t claim "is not considered cheating" either, which is why the topic was raised. Automating RocketJump in real combat is nothing more than fooling around, as firing at the same angle simply cannot provide any advantage.
However, every opinion is valid and important, which is why the topic was raised. Thank you!

kszksz wrote:

Any script that automates gameplay for you, such as switching weapons, rocket jumps etc., is considered cheating. Want to change FOV, zoom, etc be my guest. The biggest offender is combo weapon switch: fire a shot from a shotgun, automatically change to a LG powerful af - SG will knock the enemy back and LG will finish it off for you.

While maxfps is changing physics slightly most of servers will enforce this setting to standardise gameplay for everyone

That's not a belly, that's my equipment wrapped up.

superbad!
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Re: Ethics in Using Commands

if the anti cheat system kicks a clean player, this can get triggered due to a faulty mouse switch (hardware failure).the rocket jump script comes with quake, i see it used for the rocket jump in other communitys by some players. they dont want to risk failing or mastering the art i suppose.

the same function can be adapted to switch weapons but this is not as common. its very simple to learn how to switch weapons with binds, and the projectiles have a different range. you can find yourself at a disadvantage if you switch to a short range weapon on a long range target, without the script you can make the right choise yourself. in a scenario where it does the thinking for you and becomes useful, its just cheap. i'd encourage playing without it for weapon switching. this is the same concept as using macros/auto hotkey in other games to automate things without the chance of failure. pressing the right buttons, choosing the most suitable weapons at the right time is part of the fight, as much as having a good aim. a bit of a grey area i guess. i dont think it makes sense to use for weapons when you can do it better yourself.

Deathadder | Goliathus Speed | Filco Majestouch | i7 3770 | 16GB | GTX 1080 | Xonar Essence ST | Sennheiser HD598