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Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
7. June 2006 - 15:13
#22
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
wrote:or better yet,I can create a poll so lets see what the voice of the ppl has to say.
nah polls are getting wy out of hand. we should just discuss here, and then let every server owner limit the cvar in his own opinion. for example the heavy pb config thats was used on freeze cup was really well tought off, with the packets and rate, etc. it did allow nudge to be -10, and imo it should. but probably not more than that.
7. June 2006 - 15:34
#23
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
wrote:nah polls are getting wy out of hand. we should just discuss here, and then let every server owner limit the cvar in his own opinion. for example the heavy pb config thats was used on freeze cup was really well tought off, with the packets and rate, etc. it did allow nudge to be -10, and imo it should. but probably not more than that.
Indeed,that pb.cfg was very well configured,proably cause hq had his fingers in it ;] Anyway -10 is fine,everything beyond that is unnecessary and can make u jerky or make rail shots that would normally hit u go right through u.
7. June 2006 - 17:56
#24
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
Maybe this can help too :
cl_timenudge This is similar to pushlatency in HalfLife, defaults to 0 which is our suggested setting for online play. In Quake3 it is normally used for offline bot practice by using a positive value that is the same as average ping. However, a positive value can also be used to stabilize displayed frames with gameworld updates(snaps) and negative values are reported to adjust client side prediction.
We strongly suggest you leave cl_timenudge at 0 for online play. However If you do wish to alter cl_timenudge to adjust client side prediction then try a negative value that is 25% to 50% of your average ping. Example if you are currently pinging 100 to the server then experiment with a setting between -25 to -50 as your cl_timenudge value. Note that if you are using a negative value for cl_timenudge the top graph in cg_lagometer may be mostly yellow.
A positive value may help if you have problems with gameworld updates (snaps) not being rendered in time. Try a small positive cl_timenudge value of 5,10,15 or 20 never higher. See cg_lagometer for an explanation of how to determine if gameworld updates are not being rendered in time.
Do not use a negative cl_timenudge if you are enabling cg_smoothclients.
(i just read in another site that this last note doesnt count on unlagged server )
just tested -20 with 100 ping (wich is usely what i get on euro servers).
yes i can hit better.
source : http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Quake3/connection.html
8. June 2006 - 2:08
#25
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
wrote:negative cl_timenudge CANT make you look jerky with enabled unlagged technology (almost all e+ servers), if some player looks jerky it can be only problem with his/your connection nothing with cl_timenudge..http://www.ra.is/unlagged/faq.html#DUTNMYLJTOP
anyway if you have feel that your enemy got some extra advantage - set same nudge to yourself to *equal* chances and
..
..
stop whiningnihil.
they will not look jerky, but if u will set more than -10 to u gameplay is jerky, im do think they mean that
due to unlagged technology in e+ it should be no mater about real target position, but in real its easy to notice its realy mater, if they skip some packets they are jekry to server witch one will do use move prediction/debuging to describe thier position and unlagged dosent work perfectly as it should so they become harder to hit. same is when comes to lagging player they also do skip packets but biger amout of data ant not reagular as it is in case somebody do use negative nudge
cl_timenudge works in way that informations which you are getting are in case of negative values drawed sooner or in case of positive values drawed later it doesnt affect in any way informations which are send from you that means that you are not skipping any packets in any case, this is not queue based thing its only about drawing delay not network delay
**
No, definitely not, in any way, shape, or form. It does not suppress commands, nor does it put inconsistent timestamps in them. (Those are the only two ways in which it could.)
**
your demo shows how high negative nudge affects you, you can see him sooner but he isnt there not yet, its problem of your unbalanced settings not his (which is matter in our discussion)..
enough of flame
8. June 2006 - 2:14
#26
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
I tryed to experimete with this in online game some time ago
but what ever i set it on ther is no diference
hmm can that bee becose ow my extra good ping ?
i have 0-10 not often higer and my 100-100 conection. 
8. June 2006 - 3:17
#27
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
wrote:Oh, yeah, and I've seen some players use negative values as low as "-200". LOL. Rat Salad knows what I'm talking about
Actually the person you're talking about has a 50 ping and a -260 nudge 
Now he's not using a nudge and has snaps set to 500
8. June 2006 - 6:38
#28
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
wrote:Oh, yeah, and I've seen some players use negative values as low as "-200". LOL. Rat Salad knows what I'm talking aboutActually the person you're talking about has a 50 ping and a -260 nudge
looooooooool Is it even possible for that setting to do anything when he has a ping as low as 50ms?! "Give me a 325HP VR-4 engine... to put on my bicycle."
Genius...
Tell me if I'm wrong (I'm sure someone will) but couldn't it really be detrimental, given ping/connection speed vs. #of snapshots the game is attempting to grab? I know there's an sv setting to limit snapshots, but still... 
:
8. June 2006 - 7:11
#29
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
Necro go MSN buddy 
8. June 2006 - 8:59
#30
Nudge,Ping and Lag Discussion
I would imagine such extreme settings would be self defeating. Actually harming the person's gameplay. This is just me thinking logically, could be wrong.
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I disagree,but explanations are unnecessary since hq explained it pretty well.Actually he was the one who explained to me everything about timenudge a looong long time ago.I also know what I saw with my own eyes,in alot of situations...players WERE jerky with timenudges -25 and when some of them reverted to 0 after I asked them nicely it was all normal.Maybe ure forgetting that I'm talking about players who dont need negative timenudge because their ping is fine.
Sry but I really dont want to bother myself every time to:
-check if player is abusing timenudge
-writing cl_timenudge command every time
-or creating a script that will change my timenudge on one button press
Call me lazy if u want...
I will when server admins do something about that questions,and I agree,wax should split this in another topic,or better yet,I can create a poll so lets see what the voice of the ppl has to say.