yes id like to say as i did before, i have a brand new pc, and i had no money at the time, no idea were to get a clean copy of quake so i used the same quake 3 as ram gave me a while back. (once he was found cheating all that time ago) i made sure he came to my house and deleted all these shity files from my pc, he said it was clean and i took his word for it. and from that day i played alot of matches on 2sweet freeze and 1v1 and alot of other servers, (mainly 2sweet) and wasent kicked. but this thing i was kicked for earlier i dont understand, i didnt load anything and i was randomly kicked which confused me, i reconnected and started playing as usual again but i wasent kicked again.
these mods you see are what were origonally on the quake copy ram gave me. at the time i forget he didnt clean the copy he gave me. so yes i am stupid for using it on this new pc and very angry that i did and now everyone thinks im a cheat and most likley will be banned for this, the only reason i carried on is because i didnt have any problems so i assumed it was ok. but if i get cleared from this, i will be going out to buy a brand new copy of quake 3 arena from a proper retail shop reinstalling e+ only and making brand new cfg's.
i dont no how i am suposed to proove to you i dont cheat.
i sent you the screenies i had with pure honesty, maybe it prooves i dont no what the files are because in my eyes, a real cheat would have removed these files before posting, but also some people could say that maybe i left them on for you to think that, so in any situation atm im going to lose.
sorry for all this fucking about, DEVA im so sorry that you get draged into this also. if e+community no longer wants me to play, ill have to deal with it. but if i do i hope some of you feel guilty about banning a innocent player.

i really cant think of much else to say because what ever i say will not be belived and put down as bullshit.

oho. so now this topic shall also cover "what exactly is good modding?".

can i sum torz's post as "he wasnt and never seems to be playing all that great. so calling him a cheater is BS". . i think the topic should just be closed on that. cos nothing anybody is saying in here is gonna change any body else's mind.

tbh i really cant understand y this community is obsessed with cheating. zzzzz.

argh. i was gonna stop posting here. anyway. try promode. nobodys worried about cheating. least been part of the promode community for as long as ive been part of e+ and i havent heard much discussion of cheating at all.

wrote:

can i sum torz's post as "he wasnt and never seems to be playing all that great. so calling him a cheater is BS". .

Almost, but not really no and I don't think Tart and I defined the "ownage" in the same way there either.

Doesn't matter if it's any gap win/loss or a draw so no, "Aw come on man, don't be a fag, i wasn't owning you really hard" won't work if you're talking about scores. It is only about if he did something he couldn't have done without a cheat, and I don't think "!" was the best example if he now was that obvious. If it was no mistake that he was cheating, he "should" have been banned, but if Joey was admin on the server and you not, that's Joeys decision (...for the moment atleast I guess, if there was nobody else adminning in DeeX at the time) and a bit off-topic. If the question was "Do you think that this is fair torz?" - that some one is cheating, of course the answer is no. But the question is, is the player cheating and so far not enough in my opinion points there and therefore I agreed with mow and what is not exclusively German; "innocent until proven guilty".

Anyway it's a fun example, as I feel it's agreeing with my point completely. "!" was a "bad" player, and because of that he could either suck or cheat. And when he cheated, even though it only brought him up to "winning by a little", he couldn't hide it. Because he wasn't good enough to begin with. If he would have been good enough to hide a cheat, he would have been good enough to play really well without cheats too, and if he added spice to that and used it so much that it was as obvious as you say, you as clean player would not have "almost got him on octagon" (assuming otherwise fair conditions).

So just to tie it back to Panic, what I'm saying is that in my book, if he would be cheating to reach this level he would be worse normally, and at that level he wouldn't be good enough to hide a cheat perfectly for game after game. The only way to solve it is to watch him. If he cheats it would be visible, if he doesn't then it makes sense. As in the example above, if he would have been good enough to hide a cheat he would have been atleast as good as player as he is now, and better with the cheat. UNLESS - unless he is exactly this good, and cheats but hides it so much that it doesn't make him better. This is what I said doesn't make sense and probably where we disagree. I don't see a reason or can find motivation to desperately have a player like that busted - if such players even exists, because please agree with me that it would be stupid beyond limits...

Again, I'm not trying to change anyones own opinion whether he thinks he cheats or not, because I have no idea if he does. But the reason I have no idea is because he could be a cheater for having dodgy files, but he could aswell be clean because nobody is presenting any demo or amazing score or otherwise solid proof that he has in fact done anything. I do not know, because I have not seen his POV playing. This is also the reason I'm puzzled how some people can conclude that he's cheating. The only one so far that could possibly do this seems to be wax, so it's entirely up to him to make up his mind. However without a demo(?) or anything to share, the rest of us aren't "helped" and cannot help.

If a policy is "I will not allow a player who has been kicked by PB for traces of cheat on my server", then it's 100% fine. Same goes with refusing to play him. Aswell as everything else personal. But on a larger level, I think people should be a bit more careful with trying to dictate whether some one should be allowed to play wars at all or even be allowed in the community, thinking they have "the rights" to suggest some one "lays low" for a couple of months, or even justifies storming into matchreports calling him out and pointing fingers. Until you are sure...

-----

Panic records his wars, Panic uploads on request, people will see if "that hit where I swear I was moving so fast" was even a hard shot from his view or if he did infact hear your last footstep before "i swear i was walking all the time" (pub-server whine that is so common it's funny). And all is well, nobody needs to feel bad about driving out a potentially clean but not very technically gifted player, and everyone can feel good about flaming him to hell if it turns out those files weren't just innocently lying there. Ja?

-edit-
Just posting here because everyone else is, I realize too that this is "Cheater REPORT" and not "Cheater DISCUSSION", if the latter exists then maybe it should be stickied or something, I don't find a good official thread for this.

quote; torz:
"I agreed with mow and what is not exclusively German; "innocent until proven guilty". "

if the guy in germany walking throught streats with ak-47 and few grenades on belt, do police will say he is inconced couse they dont know if he will use it or not?

bs..

an inconcent guy is a guy wich is suspected about somthing and a jury cant prov hes done somthing iligal or not done it yet, but if u open his car trunk and u will see he has there weapons u have yors provs then, same as u, police in this case dint saw he has murder someone or was selling guns, propably he will ben not arested if he will not walking public with gun and poilice dint saw that

out there are facts in this case, poilice/admin maked twice a picture/scren when he was having an gun in public place, police know he has a froind whos is a weapon diler, police arested him twice and said we dint sawd u kiled someone or seling guns but walking on streats with loaded gun are iligal (iven if u have license for that) weapon is only for selfdefense/tests, if time we maked our verdict in hang incase u were bust again on that and u were do busted, we dont have profs u were done somthing bad using a gun u was posesing but u will go to preason couse last time we met u were warned u should not do that couse it is iligal

and thats propably mowly side of view also

well im ben baned few times couse im was suspected of cheating
im ben accused about cheating iven by mine froinds
im ben accused about cheating by cheaters wich im beten... (autoshot, walhack is huge adventage but if a person whos dont know how to play and has reflex of turtle iven with that will lose games against experience)

before u torz. was a people wich was knowed by comunity and have thier tust but they cheated...

one of them an owner of servers and prrety good player, was cheating and crashing servers down, he tried buy an trust typing on forum

another one was in SWE clan and iven harding was defending him

and was a guy whos comunity forigiven and at that time an owner of majority of severs forgived him, and few days layter im busted him on chating couse he cant stand he was losing against me, for today "jury" dint decided to ban him...

im ben heard story about inconced guy whos brother or froind was cheating, but not him, more than 20times ...

some of these ppl still playing in respected clans under deferent nicks...

im ben feed up by that bulshit what is going on here long time ago, so im was not reading that topic at all

if u guys think u r the smartes person on world and a cheater would have less inteligence as u have u r propably to dumb to see the truth

poilce dont need to see on thier own eyes murder kiling someone to "ban" him, they can do that based on soild "traces" wich we do have in panic case

btw torz. why u do post and make oftopic? im talking in way u see it...

i am also wonder how u will see somebody using an walhack by watching demo.... if u think u r able to do than u r bulshiting yorself dude, iven wisley used autoshot is undetected by human eye...