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cl_timenudge paranoia
18. October 2012 - 10:29
#42
United States
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:U guys should help them to set it proper the same as Insy was trying to help them giving tips instead of warning them that they need to set it proper if they want to play...
Not everyone can help those newbie mo-fo's since they are mumbling questions on polish 
I usually help everyone if i can understand them. That is why only Insy was trying to help them, but if they asked on english there would be 5 more people minimum who would give them proper answers. But this way, i just muted them all and continued playing xd
18. October 2012 - 11:02
#43
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:exacly that kind of attitude brought me to make this topic, that ppl willing to believe in random throwed numbers than in a solid calculations without even trying to understand game mechanism, note please that i am not trying to convince anyone to my settings or my opinion, i have made a specyfic analysis of the matters to prove that the settings limits are wrong
I may just reccomend you keep your opinion short and simple, I strongly doubt there were someone else continuing reading your and skull converstaion.
That's not a problem needed to be explained in details. If you want to gain an attention from referees side, then explain it on their level of understanding. Even if you r using solid arguments and proffs you reach no interest by giving this on the long and boring posts. This thread may contain much info, but it almost useless as anti cheat tutorial guide made by Skull.
18. October 2012 - 11:21
#44
Netherlands
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:
Yesterday in the server Thor blamed me for starting the debate and that ppl come to the server to test settings because other player whined he can't hit enemies. They both was mad on me so much that they haven't even realized that those ppl was newbies and played without mod installed thats why their settings was default and causing lags. U guys should help them to set it proper the same as Insy was trying to help them giving tips instead of warning them that they need to set it proper if they want to play...
Until now i stayed away from this discussion.
Fala, i did not blame you for starting the debate.... i even encouraged you to do so.
Because on server we solve nothing.
I asked you to start this thread on here, to get the community consensus for eventualy changing settings.
But while this discussion is followed by many, players who read it, experiment with the settings.
Not only newbies but regulars too like ZOMBONI, punisher and yourself.
You came on with snaps as low as 10.
I am not mad about it at all, but it prevents me from playing my normal recreational game, because all the time i have to ask people to change this and change that.
I know that comes with beeing an admin.
Only thing i said to our members is that they should use /players more often, so all settings of players will be the same for fair games.
And like Kaizen says, yesterday was a polish invasion on our server. If they speak polish we cant help them.You are a regular on our servers, you know we help players all the time. We even have a MOTD we can display on screen which explains exactly how they should change things. But then first we must understand them if they have problems in setting things up 
18. October 2012 - 23:04
#45
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:You came on with snaps as low as 10.
i was on spectator, and haven't played
btw. i was checking server side synchronization, q3 tends to split everything on half though 30 is easy to divide by 10, the server does completely other thing, and if u set snaps to 10 u will receive 7,5 snapshot, it means it wont be regular, one time u receive 7 other 8. Because server always doing 30/2=15 15/2=7,5 ect. ect. Same happens with maxpackets if u have fps at 125 it always will try to /2, that's why the measured 40, 58, 111, 125 gives visible effect of client side synchronization, in practice it does not matter what u going to set client always will do /2 and round the outcome, u can play on 66 77 or 110, it always will work the same, because rounding limit is 111.
little correction of previous observation; if comes to maxpackets engine divide by 2, 3, 4, 5 and the outcome is a result of this calculation, it means 40 is a upper limit, and the low limit for lag free connection is actually 31 because all setting from 31 to 40 sending 31,25 pps (125/4)
Quote:
punisher
the punisher i have seen yesterday, didn't had mod installed, so it was rather a newbie
Quote:
And like Kaizen says, yesterday was a polish invasion on our server.
Yes, but what i have read yesterday on the server was pure frustration that ppl test things out, and in that exact game nobody did, u guys just overseen the situation.
I never have said u don't help ppl, i just highlighted that u blamed me for those 3 guys, witch all of them haven't installed the mod, and reading the post of u, i still get it as u blame me for players that experiment with settings, but hey i never say them to go elitez server for testing, this is not a place to test snaps 1 or other ridiculous settings, i even write in this topic in first post the optimal settings and linked those to faq, but i also need to agree with fps, that ppl don't want to read details, this lead to serious problem, if they won't read it they wont going to understand and if they won't going to understand those matters they won't be capable of making proper settings, thought i have summed all up as short this is possible in the first post in this topic, i may try other attempt to do so without talking to someone in this topic, but then if anyone going believe me if i will not going to provide full details?
18. October 2012 - 12:32
#46
Netherlands
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:.......... i just highlighted that u blamed me for those 3 guys, ....., and reading the post of u, i still get it as u blame me for players that experiment with settings
Fala i dont blame you for anything, but when i came on, and saw all those weird settings.... i tought WTF 
(but knowing when this discussion is not settled, we have to check the settings more often..... no biggie )
Please continue this thread, and i would like to see some input of dev's aswell.
Lets get this straigthen out so there will be proper guidance how settings should be controlled in a way its fexible and fair for all.
So once again Fala, no hard feelings, nobody is blaming anyone. We are seeking for E+ consensus. If it will not come to that, nothing will change.
18. October 2012 - 17:12
#47
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
wrote:exacly that kind of attitude brought me to make this topic, that ppl willing to believe in random throwed numbers than in a solid calculations without even trying to understand game mechanism, note please that i am not trying to convince anyone to my settings or my opinion, i have made a specyfic analysis of the matters to prove that the settings limits are wrongI may just reccomend you keep your opinion short and simple, I strongly doubt there were someone else continuing reading your and skull converstaion.
That's not a problem needed to be explained in details. If you want to gain an attention from referees side, then explain it on their level of understanding. Even if you r using solid arguments and proffs you reach no interest by giving this on the long and boring posts. This thread may contain much info, but it almost useless as anti cheat tutorial guide made by Skull.
big and solid f1 
18. October 2012 - 20:40
#48
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
since we are talking, maybe someone willing to tell me why server sends max 30 packets per second, and no matter how much u will set sv_fps it will send 20, 25, 30 pps
i also was checking traffic of my connection when i was connected to a server with sv_fps 125, in this settings server sends 25 pps and the scoreboard ping raise, i was thinking its because each packet contains more bits, but when i looked on bandwidth taken by q3 it is exactly the same as it would be sv_fps 25
then i did go on elitez server to annoy them more and i was specking players and observing the bandwidth, this time it raised from 1,8kb/s in peaks up to 5kb/s and it wasn't constant at all, the value changed all the time depending on what happens in game. its quite opposite situation to maxpackets where they take constantly the same amount of bandwidth
someone has any explanation? articles to study?
in a practice when server runs at sv_fps 40 it sends 20pps and the settings is worse as it would be on sv_fps 30
other thing that i was observing is a prediction smoothness and on sv_fps with client playing com_maxfps 125 this isn't prediction constantly changes it raises then suddenly drops to almost 0 and raises again,, while on sv_fps 25 prediction is constant
i explains this to myself as;
125/25=5 in this situation one snapshot is displayed every 5th rendered frame
125/30=4,1666 in this situation snapshots can't be perfectly aligned to frames and when the game aligns a snapshot to a frame the next snapshot must be corrected by adding some prediction, that's why the blue triangles aren't as that smooth like in case of sv_fps 25
18. October 2012 - 20:50
#49
Germany
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
look fala, we just got one way to solve all these riddles with true information and not second hand sources.
One of us learns c
finito, i will try to get myself some time for that sooner or later.
18. October 2012 - 21:11
#50
Re: cl_timenudge paranoia
// cl_timeNudge is a user adjustable cvar that allows more
// or less latency to be added in the interest of better
// smoothness or better responsiveness.
int tn;
tn = cl_timeNudge->integer;
if (tn<-30) {
tn = -30;
} else if (tn>30) {
tn = 30;
}
cl.serverTime = cls.realtime + cl.serverTimeDelta - tn;Here you go. That's the only thing that is done with the value btw.
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yes it always was about my selfish pro elo attitude u got me...
e+ is already unlagged and if u havent noticed we are only talking about how does it works
if a opinion/thesis is proven via analysis experiments then this becomes a fact not a opinion any more, and then i dont talk about my personal opinion any more but about proven mechanism on how game works witch affect everyone playing this game
exacly that kind of attitude brought me to make this topic, that ppl willing to believe in random throwed numbers than in a solid calculations without even trying to understand game mechanism, note please that i am not trying to convince anyone to my settings or my opinion, i have made a specyfic analysis of the matters to prove that the settings limits are wrong, and i have used not my words, but a ppl that before me have made calculation or was dealing with the code so they for sure have a lot more knowledge than i do. When i was writing a example cfg for newibies i never have said that those settings given there should be strict, and now ppl twist those words without even willing to study the matters... They just repeat from player to player a "magic settings". There is none of magic, everything i say here can be proven by making analise of the game.
Yesterday in the server Thor blamed me for starting the debate and that ppl come to the server to test settings because other player whined he can't hit enemies. They both was mad on me so much that they haven't even realized that those ppl was newbies and played without mod installed thats why their settings was default and causing lags. U guys should help them to set it proper the same as Insy was trying to help them giving tips instead of warning them that they need to set it proper if they want to play...
I am addicted to life.